J&W builds a mini-ITX AM2+ motherboard based on the AMD 785G chipset.
Building on the same updated AMD 785G chipset as the ASUS M4A785-M Evo, this new motherboard from J&W is a very well built motherboard, which uses only solid capacitors and big ramsinks in everything that outputs heat - durability seems a goal with this motherboard.
J&W included both DVI and HDMI outputs in addition to the standard VGA port and there's also a very useful eSATA connector. There's also 128MB of sideport memory that will give a small to graphics performance.
Don't expect this to be a cheap motherboard but one that will target a very specific niche of industrial computing, car PCs and mini PCs. Seems a decent proposal if you are on the market for that.
Specifications:
Source: INPAI
15 comments:
Anybody have a successful build with this yet? I put one together, runs fine, but the mobo makes weird static/squealing noises when the video changes. (no speakers hooked up, other components isolated) Any ideas?
That is due to the type of inductors used. Your better chance is to change motherboard, although I haven't found one Mini-ITX board without it's problems.
The Jetway JNC62K-LF seems the better choice: http://bit.ly/aVXvW9
Since it has chokes that have not given me even one hint of electrical noise in also a Jetway AM2 board. Zotac uses similar chokes on one of its boards but has a regular one laying around that seems to be causing issues with video, while CPU load seems to produce no electrical noise.
I decided not to buy the JNC62K because it only has a DIMM slot and went with the J&W Minix 780G, which had electrical noise, much to my disappointment. Had I only needed only one DIMM, it would be my first choice. It also has many overclocking/undervolting options.
We have a topic in the forum for PSU electrical noise (http://www.siliconmadness.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=106) but perhaps it would be a good time to also add one for motherboards.
Do report back when you get the chance.
That is discouraging to hear this could be inherent to the board. I'm expecting tech support reply from the vendor and hopefully the manufacturer. Can't imagine they'd leave a fault like this in a board targeted at HTPC market.
Don't like the Jetway - no PCIe for my new tuner card.
Problem solved! APEX M100-BK case has standoffs that are exactly the height of several square metal magnet-looking things (chokes?) on the mobo underside. I figured three in a row contacting metal was causing short/interference. Thin (1/8") foam sheet from packaging, torn to just fit under the offending parts, insulating. Noise is gone!
Otherwise, the board is great so far. Might research a fan that doesn't get so audible under load, but the SILVERSTONE NT07-AM2 is a perfect fit for the case.
Thanks for the ideas - definitely helped me think thru the problem!
I'm glad to hear you solved your problem but I must caution you against what you've done.
The other way to stop electrical noise is to stop the inductors from moving, which works only on some of them, depending on the design, which is your situation. I don't believe a short circuit was causing it but rather when you applied the foam sheet, it applied further pressure which should have stopped the inductors from moving, hence reducing noise.
You must be careful to check if the inductors don't get too hot(by using something like prime95), because you now are isolating(or reducing) one source of heat dissipation and dissipating heat through the PCB might not be enough. Please check that to avoid any problems.
I would say that a 65W processor can cause you problems, based on my testing of the Minix 780G.
Perhaps it would be better for you to try and use some thermal pads instead of the foam sheet, as it would help to dissipate more heat.
Best regards,
Tiago
Thanks for you ideas/warnings. Shin-Etsu thermal pads, perhaps? Any tips on a source for that?
The 65W CPU gets to 69C before leveling off according to Speedfan, sounds like max fan speed, under heavy load. I think the max temp is around 72-74C for this family of CPUs. I guess it might wear out the CPU early if I can't get it cooler with an extra case fan. Maybe just run it until it quits, then get a 45W? Rather not toss a new CPU!
Shin-Etsu seems fine but I'm not sure if you can get them with the desired thickness.
The chokes are not overly sensitive to temperature per se but you want to keep integrity on the not so stable lead free solder used nowadays, to be on the safe side. The ideal would be to measure the temperature back there, to check if you need to change something. I rather be safe than sorry :)
I'm ordering this one to check if I can get the same results as you on my Minix 780G:
http://bit.ly/cQzJE5
That temperature seems fine, it will throttle back if it gets too high(100ºC+). I'm receiving the AC Freezer 64 tomorrow(http://bit.ly/dhgrSr) and I can check if it fits on the Minix 780G.
Hi Tiago - I think I'm going to let the pads I have in there ride for a while - they look like they're holding up fine. Next project is to get the case cooler/quieter. Any experience with the Pico-PSU? Thinking about the 150W version, if it could hold up to a 65W CPU, the 785 board, full-size BD-Rom drive, 7200 rpm SATA and PCIex1 tuner card. Any idea?
Hi Christian,
Being DC-DC converters, the Pico PSUs should provide very close to the rated power, which is not something one might say from most OEM PSUs. From your specifications, I think it should be enough, I don't expect to go beyond 120W. I have tested my Minix with a 65W Phenom on a cheap OEM PSU and got below that, on a full computer, full load.
You might want to avoid the Pico PSU due to electrical noise problems, as most I've seen feature the same low quality inductors as the Minix itself and the DC adapter you'll need will almost surely have the same problem.
Best regards,
Tiago
Well, I should have left well enough alone. Somehow in the process of installing the 150-XT Pico-PSU the HDMI output died. DVI still worked, and ran Ok for 2 days. But the system was still really hot! The video heatsinks get almost too hot to touch. Then this AM I couldn't get startup -just the CPU fan spinning a bit. Switched back to the original PSU, and something clearly burned off near the HDMI socket (pop, flame, smoke!) DVI is now showing scramble. I'm going to try to RMA the board, but will stick with the original setup - Seems the PicoPSU couldn't handle the video draw?
It's possible. A good PSU shuts down without delivering too much voltage, or too little, as both happen increasingly as you draw more power from it.
I don't think that 150W wouldn't be enough, as long as it was really delivering that(which would depend on it's quality), but it is always good to check with a power meter.
One can wonder that that pico psu is not good, perhaps it is also broken?
Have you looked into SFF PSUs? They can still can deliver 200W+ in a very small form factor.
Update, if you're curious - Mvix replaced the board via RMA. It's working well with the original PSU. Two small washers under the mobo anchor holes solve the choke noise issue while preserving airflow. Undervolting and an extra exhaust fan are helping temps. A more efficient SFF PSU is on the way, don't know if I'll use it or keep it in reserve.
BTW - J&W released the first BIOS update for the MINIX 785G. Release are cryptic. Any experience?
Hello Christian,
What do you mean by anchor holes? You mean to isolate the motherboard from the screws/case?
I've tried the trick of using a thermal pad and although it does reduce electrical noise a bit, it doesn't reduce it completely and puts some tension on the motherboard. I'll be selling it and using a MicroATX board with better chokes instead.
I have not updated the BIOS but manufacturers, not just J&W, tend to fixe some problems and not post it. Sometimes they don't even know they're fixed since they're also updating parts of their code from upstream - AMI or Award.
Thanks for the update!
Best regards,
Tiago
Hi Tiago - I mean the usual holes in the motherboard through which you attach it to the case with screws. Since it has conducting strips isolated from any surrounding circuitry, I felt it was safe to add a small metal washer under the two distal holes (distal from I/O panel). This provides the 1-2mm clearance needed for the chokes. No choke contact with case = no noise.
I think it's a good board, too bad it's not well marketed in the U.S.
Hi Christian,
Thanks for clearing that up. That's strange though, since I get noise even out of the case. I certainly never heard of electrical noise that got fixed that way but it's great it worked.
It is a good board, it's just that J&W is a recent brand, they'll take some time to find representation everywhere.
Best regards
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